I am concerned on reading the comments here that little to no understanding exists of the valid concerns many of us, as liberal and progressive Democrats (I am among the latter) have repeatedly raised regarding the need to protect the female category in sports.
There is a conflict of rights here, and in order to resolve it, we must first recognize it exists, and with that, recognize that it is not just so-called right wing bigots who have these concerns, but also staunch Democrats, among them Martina Navratilova, who have made repeated efforts to get this conversation going, do some real problem solving, and get this behind us.
Here is a way to think about this issue productively, rather than reactively, as has too often been the case.
Title IX Athletics
Issue: Biological girls and women are losing opportunities as the result of an increasing number of biological males competing in girls’ and women’s sports.
Proposed Democratic Position: Reserve girls’ and women’s sports only for biological girls and women (including biological girls and women who self-identify as, eg, non-binary) and offer an “open” category in which anyone at all can compete, no matter how they self-identify.
Resources: Martina Navratilova, who has researched, written and spoken extensively on this and can point you to many useful resources. In addition, in the Washington Post, Doriane Lambelet Coleman (the Thomas L. Perkins Distinguished Professor of Law at Duke), offered insightful, fair-minded commentary in the wake of the IOC mishandling of women’s boxing, which also bears strongly on the overall need to protect the female category in sport. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/08/16/womens-sports-transgender-dsd-olympics/
As the parent of a trans adult, I'm terrified. The fact that trans people are few in number compared with other minorities, and that many have an ongoing need for medications, makes them easy to target. As the prior commenter said, discussion of the issue of trans people in sports requires nuance. Moulton's comments sadly buy into oversimplified MAGA talking points. But since there's no longer room for nuance in our politics, I don't see much hope that Dems can reshape the "wokeness" discussion--even if they want to do that. They may instead throw trans people under the bus, stupidly thinking this will save the party.
Worst aspect of the Dems' morning-after laments has been the vilification of the trans community, and just appalling scapegoating of a tiny, vulnerable minority as SOMEHOW costing Harris votes in the swing states. Shameful, cowardly piling-on behavior.
I agree that the scapegoating is despicable, but I do think it might have affected some votes. Why? Because of the voters. The blame lies with the small-minded swallowers of the FAUX News/Rethuglicon propaganda who took these bogus ads for gospel.
Look -- all I'm saying is that no Democratic candidate should ever, ever, ever campaign with Republicans or say they're going to put Republicans in their cabinet. It muddies the Democratic message -- Republicans and their policies are bad for the country, and look! We agree with them! -- and it got precisely zero votes. I don't know if that's "woke" or not, but I'm willing to die on that hill.
If a parent said something like Moulton’s comments to another parent, that’s one thing — a non-politician, unversed in the issue, presumably expressing earnest feelings, in private.
If a multi-term congressman from a D+30 district gives those comments to the Times, isn’t that congressman explicitly signaling that they will not have trans people’s back?
And if activists expect some D congresspeople to be better than that, shouldn’t they expect it in D+30 districts?
My issue with the Moulton comments is that substance aside, Republicans never feel the need to earnestly play defense like this, and it clearly worked for them in 2024. The correct answer to the trans youth in sports question is “What the hell are you talking about? You want to inspect children? What are you, some kind of pervert? Why do you think the American people are creeps like you? What’s wrong with you?”
I was in HR for 25 years and understood and was an advocate for "diversity" (that was before "equity" and "inclusion" were added to the project). I still believe that companies and countries that embrace their diversity have comparative advantages over those that don't. On the other hand, I went on a friend's website and found I could take a course to learn how I, as a white male, was an "oppressor." It, along with criticism of the "patriarchy" sets up a whole class of people as victims (and, others, of course, as oppressors). I react negatively and viscerally to people claiming victimhood, without denying that people face obstacles in life for lots of reasons (gender, race, age, national origin, religion, appearance, height, intelligence, education level, family background.....shall I go on?).
"Being a victim" is a loser, and so, apparently, is trying to rectify all the obstacles faced by people "not like us." Whenever I talked to my Republican friends, they raised the most extreme, weird ideas "held by" Democrats. Didn't matter that some of those (Trans rights for immigrants - Trump) weren't strictly Democratic ideas. Or that they found the one case in our country of 330M people that supported their argument. The "right wing noise machine" is clearly effective.
I'm glad I'm not responsible for Democratic politics going forward (assuming our descent into autocracy is not immediate and unrepairable). But if I were, I'd look to get rid of the "oppressor/victim" frame.
Accusing Democrats of "Being Woke" is just another way of saying "Political Correctness" (1990s) Only another way to easily bludgeon the liberals. If it is seen and acted on in that light, it should be easy to counteract this depraved tactic by MAGA (or the Tea Party or Newt Gingrich's Repubs). We've seen this shit before! Mostly everyone is taught as a child to try and see the world from the other person's viewpoint before condemning them as "lazy," "criminal," "rapists," you get the idea. The fear of trans people can be addressed as the fear of gays was addressed decades ago, by highlighting stories of real people, real families who are dealing with unbridled hatred. This is where artistic expression comes in (Remember the beloved Robin Williams in "The Bird Cage"?). An interesting factoid I saw on CNN this morning. X (formerly Twitter) has lost 80% of its value because people are flocking to other social sites because Musk has made his so, so hateful. Me? I just joined Blue Sky! Follow me and I'll follow you!
On the moulten thing what angers me is he obviously knows better and he deliberately chose a reactionary and prejudice aligned framing to pander to voters and their own guttural reactions about what it must mean to have trans-females participate in sports. I think it is a complicated issue where you need to tread carefully and be respectful of differing opinions. However you also dont need to full sale validate voters irrational beliefs.
I have a suspicion that trans women is far from the biggest issue in ethics/fairness in women’s sports and far from the biggest concern for trans people in their struggles.
Another thought on this:
An enlightened way of looking at trans women in sports is that trans people have a right to exist; when it comes to women sports let the governing bodies that deal with issues of fairness (IOC, NCAA, CIF (for HS sports in California) deal with it. They exist for this purpose.
MAGA thinks trans people shouldn’t exist so let’s humiliate them out of existence.
I think class- or at least anti-billionaire politics provides a path forward for the left without having to “ask[] people to acknowledge that they’ve benefited from unfairness in society.” Immense accumulated wealth has distorted the info ecosystem in ways that benefit those who hold that wealth to the detriment of the overwhelming majority of voters, including (especially?) Trump voters. I think it’s possible to offer a popular and simple message to that effect without requiring people to admit and reject their privilege in other domains. For my money, this is the way.
There are two fundamental empirical facts to grapple with here.
First, though D candidates rarely run on "woke" positions, the cultural weight that academia and leftish media carry within the D coalition means that the D brand will be associated in the public mind with those positions.
Second, many such positions, including on gender, racial, and policing issues, are very unpopular with the general public. That doesn't mean they are wrong on the merits! But the unpopularity is a fact that really does seem to damage D electoral prospects because of the association above.
There are several things you could do about these facts but it would help if we accepted them as facts first.
Here we are, discussing the fake issue Republicans pretend is one of the most pressing problems in the US. Isn’t that playing into their hands, using their framing just like the media does? We/Dems need to set the agenda, start making society frame the issues the way we see them instead of buying into the Republican mindset. What’s important is respecting all people and treating them like full human beings regardless of our differences. If we’re talking about trans youth in sports, a fake issue that affects a minuscule number of people, we’ve already lost the battle. It’s really just another version of obeying in advance.
Not to discount the real threats to trans people’s lives. But that’s a different issue than political persuasion.
I am concerned on reading the comments here that little to no understanding exists of the valid concerns many of us, as liberal and progressive Democrats (I am among the latter) have repeatedly raised regarding the need to protect the female category in sports.
There is a conflict of rights here, and in order to resolve it, we must first recognize it exists, and with that, recognize that it is not just so-called right wing bigots who have these concerns, but also staunch Democrats, among them Martina Navratilova, who have made repeated efforts to get this conversation going, do some real problem solving, and get this behind us.
Here is a way to think about this issue productively, rather than reactively, as has too often been the case.
Title IX Athletics
Issue: Biological girls and women are losing opportunities as the result of an increasing number of biological males competing in girls’ and women’s sports.
Proposed Democratic Position: Reserve girls’ and women’s sports only for biological girls and women (including biological girls and women who self-identify as, eg, non-binary) and offer an “open” category in which anyone at all can compete, no matter how they self-identify.
Resources: Martina Navratilova, who has researched, written and spoken extensively on this and can point you to many useful resources. In addition, in the Washington Post, Doriane Lambelet Coleman (the Thomas L. Perkins Distinguished Professor of Law at Duke), offered insightful, fair-minded commentary in the wake of the IOC mishandling of women’s boxing, which also bears strongly on the overall need to protect the female category in sport. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/08/16/womens-sports-transgender-dsd-olympics/
As the parent of a trans adult, I'm terrified. The fact that trans people are few in number compared with other minorities, and that many have an ongoing need for medications, makes them easy to target. As the prior commenter said, discussion of the issue of trans people in sports requires nuance. Moulton's comments sadly buy into oversimplified MAGA talking points. But since there's no longer room for nuance in our politics, I don't see much hope that Dems can reshape the "wokeness" discussion--even if they want to do that. They may instead throw trans people under the bus, stupidly thinking this will save the party.
Worst aspect of the Dems' morning-after laments has been the vilification of the trans community, and just appalling scapegoating of a tiny, vulnerable minority as SOMEHOW costing Harris votes in the swing states. Shameful, cowardly piling-on behavior.
I agree that the scapegoating is despicable, but I do think it might have affected some votes. Why? Because of the voters. The blame lies with the small-minded swallowers of the FAUX News/Rethuglicon propaganda who took these bogus ads for gospel.
Well said, thank you'
Look -- all I'm saying is that no Democratic candidate should ever, ever, ever campaign with Republicans or say they're going to put Republicans in their cabinet. It muddies the Democratic message -- Republicans and their policies are bad for the country, and look! We agree with them! -- and it got precisely zero votes. I don't know if that's "woke" or not, but I'm willing to die on that hill.
If a parent said something like Moulton’s comments to another parent, that’s one thing — a non-politician, unversed in the issue, presumably expressing earnest feelings, in private.
If a multi-term congressman from a D+30 district gives those comments to the Times, isn’t that congressman explicitly signaling that they will not have trans people’s back?
And if activists expect some D congresspeople to be better than that, shouldn’t they expect it in D+30 districts?
My issue with the Moulton comments is that substance aside, Republicans never feel the need to earnestly play defense like this, and it clearly worked for them in 2024. The correct answer to the trans youth in sports question is “What the hell are you talking about? You want to inspect children? What are you, some kind of pervert? Why do you think the American people are creeps like you? What’s wrong with you?”
I was in HR for 25 years and understood and was an advocate for "diversity" (that was before "equity" and "inclusion" were added to the project). I still believe that companies and countries that embrace their diversity have comparative advantages over those that don't. On the other hand, I went on a friend's website and found I could take a course to learn how I, as a white male, was an "oppressor." It, along with criticism of the "patriarchy" sets up a whole class of people as victims (and, others, of course, as oppressors). I react negatively and viscerally to people claiming victimhood, without denying that people face obstacles in life for lots of reasons (gender, race, age, national origin, religion, appearance, height, intelligence, education level, family background.....shall I go on?).
"Being a victim" is a loser, and so, apparently, is trying to rectify all the obstacles faced by people "not like us." Whenever I talked to my Republican friends, they raised the most extreme, weird ideas "held by" Democrats. Didn't matter that some of those (Trans rights for immigrants - Trump) weren't strictly Democratic ideas. Or that they found the one case in our country of 330M people that supported their argument. The "right wing noise machine" is clearly effective.
I'm glad I'm not responsible for Democratic politics going forward (assuming our descent into autocracy is not immediate and unrepairable). But if I were, I'd look to get rid of the "oppressor/victim" frame.
Accusing Democrats of "Being Woke" is just another way of saying "Political Correctness" (1990s) Only another way to easily bludgeon the liberals. If it is seen and acted on in that light, it should be easy to counteract this depraved tactic by MAGA (or the Tea Party or Newt Gingrich's Repubs). We've seen this shit before! Mostly everyone is taught as a child to try and see the world from the other person's viewpoint before condemning them as "lazy," "criminal," "rapists," you get the idea. The fear of trans people can be addressed as the fear of gays was addressed decades ago, by highlighting stories of real people, real families who are dealing with unbridled hatred. This is where artistic expression comes in (Remember the beloved Robin Williams in "The Bird Cage"?). An interesting factoid I saw on CNN this morning. X (formerly Twitter) has lost 80% of its value because people are flocking to other social sites because Musk has made his so, so hateful. Me? I just joined Blue Sky! Follow me and I'll follow you!
On the moulten thing what angers me is he obviously knows better and he deliberately chose a reactionary and prejudice aligned framing to pander to voters and their own guttural reactions about what it must mean to have trans-females participate in sports. I think it is a complicated issue where you need to tread carefully and be respectful of differing opinions. However you also dont need to full sale validate voters irrational beliefs.
I have a suspicion that trans women is far from the biggest issue in ethics/fairness in women’s sports and far from the biggest concern for trans people in their struggles.
Another thought on this:
An enlightened way of looking at trans women in sports is that trans people have a right to exist; when it comes to women sports let the governing bodies that deal with issues of fairness (IOC, NCAA, CIF (for HS sports in California) deal with it. They exist for this purpose.
MAGA thinks trans people shouldn’t exist so let’s humiliate them out of existence.
I think class- or at least anti-billionaire politics provides a path forward for the left without having to “ask[] people to acknowledge that they’ve benefited from unfairness in society.” Immense accumulated wealth has distorted the info ecosystem in ways that benefit those who hold that wealth to the detriment of the overwhelming majority of voters, including (especially?) Trump voters. I think it’s possible to offer a popular and simple message to that effect without requiring people to admit and reject their privilege in other domains. For my money, this is the way.
Rahm Emanuel as DNC Chair hardly inspires confidence in the Opposition Party...what are these people thinking already?
There are two fundamental empirical facts to grapple with here.
First, though D candidates rarely run on "woke" positions, the cultural weight that academia and leftish media carry within the D coalition means that the D brand will be associated in the public mind with those positions.
Second, many such positions, including on gender, racial, and policing issues, are very unpopular with the general public. That doesn't mean they are wrong on the merits! But the unpopularity is a fact that really does seem to damage D electoral prospects because of the association above.
There are several things you could do about these facts but it would help if we accepted them as facts first.
To paraphrase: The enemy of my nominally allied friend is my enemy.
So it's wise to not give said enemy fuel, in the shape of un-nuanced soundbites that they can use against you and your nominally allied friend.
Here we are, discussing the fake issue Republicans pretend is one of the most pressing problems in the US. Isn’t that playing into their hands, using their framing just like the media does? We/Dems need to set the agenda, start making society frame the issues the way we see them instead of buying into the Republican mindset. What’s important is respecting all people and treating them like full human beings regardless of our differences. If we’re talking about trans youth in sports, a fake issue that affects a minuscule number of people, we’ve already lost the battle. It’s really just another version of obeying in advance.
Not to discount the real threats to trans people’s lives. But that’s a different issue than political persuasion.