I mean, a running war tally alongside what those dollars could have provided to Americans citizens might be helpful. So would Dems engaging in more shadow governance/oversight/diplomacy. We’ve seen some, but all high profile Dems not currently in office could be using trump’s model from 2021-2024 to ensure an alternative narrative. And spare me the “we don’t control any more media levers”. No one except your grandma and anyone trapped in a dentist's waiting room is watching traditional media and also, somehow a bunch of shitty clothing brands are still able to infiltrate my feeds. Surely we can figure out some way to seed counter propaganda and stop crying about Fox News.
Amazing. People are so smart. Now we just need to occasionally mention what those dollars could have been used for as well as the fact that human life is priceless.
There are many ways for Dems of all stripes to loudly oppose this illegal, unjustified war and hang it around the regimes/ GOPs neck from spending billions while Americans here at home are struggling to get health care and put food on the table to deaths that never should have happened.
They have an opportunity here to shape public opinion on this and they should absolutely take advantage of it, even the squishy Dems who are afraid of politicking.
I think part of the issue is that the media is not afraid to call a spade a spade with Dems, and bend over backwards for GOP. Zero people in the media could explain why the GOP were so pretend mad about Benghazi, but always gave them the benefit of the doubt, instead of the obvious conclusion that they were pretending.
Not sure what you do about it, but it's a limiting factor for Dems, they need to be absolutely sure there's something real, they can't just make things up and launch investigations as easily
Step one is to be actually mad about it, and to wage a political conflict that you might actually win. As opposed to being fake mad about it and avoiding a political conflict because you might lose.
It's true that Dems don't have a Fox News they can rely on. But there are plenty of other outlets from the mainstream to the alternative.
Successfully emulating #Benghazi scandal requires not only the will of democratic politicians (which is lacking), but also media ecosystem malleable enough to be compliant, skillful political actors, passive victims who cant defend themselves effectively to public and most of all, national zeitgeist both sceptic to ruling establishment and to foreign military escapades. This all we lack now. Redoing Benghazi will not be successful, just as there cannot be a new Watergate scandal. Democrats should stick to things that give them fruits, however small these are: moderation, reconciliation and KTI.
Americans died. Were they suckers and losers? Did anyone in Trump's orbit profit off this war on the betting markets? What did Pete Hegseth know and when did he know it about the temporary command post in Kuwait being indefensible? Why did Trump lie to his own supporters about being the "No Wars" candidate? Is Trump just Bibi's little bitch?
There are plenty of possible angles of attack here.
War will be over in a week, or a month, or two months. After it's over the public will move on in a blink of an eye. Who remembers gaza, or twelve days war, or the huti bombings? People interested in politics do, but they are not swing voters anyway. Price of eggs, price of fuel or healthcare can be used constantly because it never goes away. War seems "priced in" into perception of american politicians. It's like corruption - every political candidate is against corruption, and many are truly clean and honest, but in eyes of public whole political class is corrupt, so Trump's shenanigans don't create a reaction.
I accept that there are plenty of possible angles of attack but to spun it into a scandal a and make these issues salient, one needs tools and skills that democrats lack.
The only question that can make a dent is "Is Trump just Bibi's little bitch", but it's due to anti semitism. I don't feel like democrats should go this path. They cannot separate antisemitism from anti-Netanyahu or anti-zionism.
It seems like there might be a connection to this little kti (kitchen table issue) you mentioned that might be possible to draw to the current misadventure through the midterms: "price of fuel"
And who knows what else could turn up that would be embarrassing from looking into it. I know *you* would rule out using a foreign influence or bribery thing, from Israel or an American 'Jewish' Israel supporter because of your 'can't separate anti-semitism from anti-Zionism' rule, but what if there is foreign influence or bribery thing from a Persian Gulf Arab state, or a domestic bribery/influence thing from a Christian Evangelical Israel supporter. Or any other number quids pro quo or just stupidities in preparing for predictable blowback?
While the Libya intervention, looking back on it, is sort of regretted, with world consensus being that western and US did not solve anything or make anything better, on net, the Libya operation as a whole specifically was not treated as wound nor a quagmire for Obama, the Democrats, nor America or the west. Not like Iraq and Afghanistan were. Maybe indirect effects like migration were, but those migration effects were coming before and either way, with Qadhafi staying or going.
Likewise, in the luckiest of scenarios, Trump by refusing to follow the pottery barn rule and eventual running of the course of retaliation, could avoid a quagmire. But embarrassments and scandals of other kinds related to it can be revealed even if America is fortunate enough to not pay anything like Iraq or Afghanistan like costs in Iran. Libya per se didn't screw the Democratic succession of 2016, or weigh against it, but the Benghazi nonsense did.
Somebody......several somebodies, should be asking this asshole, how he thinks the operation is going for the military and military spouses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Kent
The totality of his whacked out views and subsequent commitments obscures it now, but his publicly expressed animating motive when he made himself a Congressional candidate in 2021, after he had been widow'ed when his military spouse was killed in a suicide attack in Manbij, Syria in 2019, was non-interventionism and getting out of the Forever Wars.
Oh, and since it was ISIS that did the attack that killed his wife, the current op didn't even get any personal vengeance for him.
Thanks for the ‘like’ John. I didn’t personally ask Joe Kent or reach out to him other than to ask this rhetorical question, but Kent did end up resigning on March 17th over the Iran war, calling it pointless, and showing some consistency with his earlier views.
Dems never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Republicans the opposite. Remember the infamous Bill C tarmac visit? Straight line from that thru Lynch benching herself and letting COMEY call the shot on reopening the email investigation. Another prong in the pincer was setting up perv Wiener (via HRC aide Abedin) to seize his laptop “where the emails were hidden.”
It seems like this would be the perfect time for Democrats to accuse Republicans of making Americans less safe. They started a war in Iran, but they refused a deal to fund DHS without ICE and Border Patrol AND Kash Patel fired FBI agents tracking Iran threats in the US. Democrats can wave the bloody shirt without waiting for blood to be spilled.
> This is more than just an unwise use of military power that has cost American lives and will make gasoline more expensive. It's an impeachable offense that Americans have a right to understand from its genesis.
Here, here; yes!
Though Trump has done dozens of impeachable offenses, imho. This might, however, become the Big One, the rallying cry, the Benghazi, that overcomes his so far successful strategy of flooding the zone with shit
So is the Brian Beutler doctrine that public saliency and receptiveness to any Party's framing of an issue and relevant follow-up questions is basically just the elbow grease and persistence put behind pushing that framing at all opportunities. Contra 'Mean Girls', "Yes, Gretchen Wieners, you *can* make 'Fetch' happen!"...if you work at it relentlessly.
Totally agree. Unraveling this scandal of illegality is all but guaranteed to uncover more scandals and corruption the likes of which this country has never seen. And the country has to know about it to have any chance of fixing it. Also, with the corrupt SCOTUS immunity ruling, legal accountability is basically a dead letter. Political accountability is all this country has left. To retreat into the phony, high minded “look forward, not backward” mantra would be a moral obscenity.
I mean, a running war tally alongside what those dollars could have provided to Americans citizens might be helpful. So would Dems engaging in more shadow governance/oversight/diplomacy. We’ve seen some, but all high profile Dems not currently in office could be using trump’s model from 2021-2024 to ensure an alternative narrative. And spare me the “we don’t control any more media levers”. No one except your grandma and anyone trapped in a dentist's waiting room is watching traditional media and also, somehow a bunch of shitty clothing brands are still able to infiltrate my feeds. Surely we can figure out some way to seed counter propaganda and stop crying about Fox News.
A running tally of the cost? Start here:
https://iran-cost-ticker.com/
Amazing. People are so smart. Now we just need to occasionally mention what those dollars could have been used for as well as the fact that human life is priceless.
At this point I agree wholeheartedly.
There are many ways for Dems of all stripes to loudly oppose this illegal, unjustified war and hang it around the regimes/ GOPs neck from spending billions while Americans here at home are struggling to get health care and put food on the table to deaths that never should have happened.
They have an opportunity here to shape public opinion on this and they should absolutely take advantage of it, even the squishy Dems who are afraid of politicking.
I think the F-15’s are the biggest opportunity. It makes him look foolish, and people love fighter pilots.
Good piece but you might want to correct the date in the second sentence.
I think part of the issue is that the media is not afraid to call a spade a spade with Dems, and bend over backwards for GOP. Zero people in the media could explain why the GOP were so pretend mad about Benghazi, but always gave them the benefit of the doubt, instead of the obvious conclusion that they were pretending.
Not sure what you do about it, but it's a limiting factor for Dems, they need to be absolutely sure there's something real, they can't just make things up and launch investigations as easily
Step one is to be actually mad about it, and to wage a political conflict that you might actually win. As opposed to being fake mad about it and avoiding a political conflict because you might lose.
It's true that Dems don't have a Fox News they can rely on. But there are plenty of other outlets from the mainstream to the alternative.
Successfully emulating #Benghazi scandal requires not only the will of democratic politicians (which is lacking), but also media ecosystem malleable enough to be compliant, skillful political actors, passive victims who cant defend themselves effectively to public and most of all, national zeitgeist both sceptic to ruling establishment and to foreign military escapades. This all we lack now. Redoing Benghazi will not be successful, just as there cannot be a new Watergate scandal. Democrats should stick to things that give them fruits, however small these are: moderation, reconciliation and KTI.
I definitely think this is wrong.
Americans died. Were they suckers and losers? Did anyone in Trump's orbit profit off this war on the betting markets? What did Pete Hegseth know and when did he know it about the temporary command post in Kuwait being indefensible? Why did Trump lie to his own supporters about being the "No Wars" candidate? Is Trump just Bibi's little bitch?
There are plenty of possible angles of attack here.
War will be over in a week, or a month, or two months. After it's over the public will move on in a blink of an eye. Who remembers gaza, or twelve days war, or the huti bombings? People interested in politics do, but they are not swing voters anyway. Price of eggs, price of fuel or healthcare can be used constantly because it never goes away. War seems "priced in" into perception of american politicians. It's like corruption - every political candidate is against corruption, and many are truly clean and honest, but in eyes of public whole political class is corrupt, so Trump's shenanigans don't create a reaction.
I accept that there are plenty of possible angles of attack but to spun it into a scandal a and make these issues salient, one needs tools and skills that democrats lack.
The only question that can make a dent is "Is Trump just Bibi's little bitch", but it's due to anti semitism. I don't feel like democrats should go this path. They cannot separate antisemitism from anti-Netanyahu or anti-zionism.
It seems like there might be a connection to this little kti (kitchen table issue) you mentioned that might be possible to draw to the current misadventure through the midterms: "price of fuel"
And who knows what else could turn up that would be embarrassing from looking into it. I know *you* would rule out using a foreign influence or bribery thing, from Israel or an American 'Jewish' Israel supporter because of your 'can't separate anti-semitism from anti-Zionism' rule, but what if there is foreign influence or bribery thing from a Persian Gulf Arab state, or a domestic bribery/influence thing from a Christian Evangelical Israel supporter. Or any other number quids pro quo or just stupidities in preparing for predictable blowback?
While the Libya intervention, looking back on it, is sort of regretted, with world consensus being that western and US did not solve anything or make anything better, on net, the Libya operation as a whole specifically was not treated as wound nor a quagmire for Obama, the Democrats, nor America or the west. Not like Iraq and Afghanistan were. Maybe indirect effects like migration were, but those migration effects were coming before and either way, with Qadhafi staying or going.
Likewise, in the luckiest of scenarios, Trump by refusing to follow the pottery barn rule and eventual running of the course of retaliation, could avoid a quagmire. But embarrassments and scandals of other kinds related to it can be revealed even if America is fortunate enough to not pay anything like Iraq or Afghanistan like costs in Iran. Libya per se didn't screw the Democratic succession of 2016, or weigh against it, but the Benghazi nonsense did.
Somebody......several somebodies, should be asking this asshole, how he thinks the operation is going for the military and military spouses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Kent
The totality of his whacked out views and subsequent commitments obscures it now, but his publicly expressed animating motive when he made himself a Congressional candidate in 2021, after he had been widow'ed when his military spouse was killed in a suicide attack in Manbij, Syria in 2019, was non-interventionism and getting out of the Forever Wars.
Oh, and since it was ISIS that did the attack that killed his wife, the current op didn't even get any personal vengeance for him.
Thanks for the ‘like’ John. I didn’t personally ask Joe Kent or reach out to him other than to ask this rhetorical question, but Kent did end up resigning on March 17th over the Iran war, calling it pointless, and showing some consistency with his earlier views.
Dems never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Republicans the opposite. Remember the infamous Bill C tarmac visit? Straight line from that thru Lynch benching herself and letting COMEY call the shot on reopening the email investigation. Another prong in the pincer was setting up perv Wiener (via HRC aide Abedin) to seize his laptop “where the emails were hidden.”
The right has always thrived on conspiracies.
It seems like this would be the perfect time for Democrats to accuse Republicans of making Americans less safe. They started a war in Iran, but they refused a deal to fund DHS without ICE and Border Patrol AND Kash Patel fired FBI agents tracking Iran threats in the US. Democrats can wave the bloody shirt without waiting for blood to be spilled.
Alas, the Dems will never be able to really milk the Iran invasion til they free themselves of the Israel tar baby.
> This is more than just an unwise use of military power that has cost American lives and will make gasoline more expensive. It's an impeachable offense that Americans have a right to understand from its genesis.
Here, here; yes!
Though Trump has done dozens of impeachable offenses, imho. This might, however, become the Big One, the rallying cry, the Benghazi, that overcomes his so far successful strategy of flooding the zone with shit
So is the Brian Beutler doctrine that public saliency and receptiveness to any Party's framing of an issue and relevant follow-up questions is basically just the elbow grease and persistence put behind pushing that framing at all opportunities. Contra 'Mean Girls', "Yes, Gretchen Wieners, you *can* make 'Fetch' happen!"...if you work at it relentlessly.
Totally agree. Unraveling this scandal of illegality is all but guaranteed to uncover more scandals and corruption the likes of which this country has never seen. And the country has to know about it to have any chance of fixing it. Also, with the corrupt SCOTUS immunity ruling, legal accountability is basically a dead letter. Political accountability is all this country has left. To retreat into the phony, high minded “look forward, not backward” mantra would be a moral obscenity.
The Dems want this war just as much as the Republicans. If they wanted to oppose it, wouldn’t they have done by now?
Asking for a friend.